JL stereo upgrade

[dustinm]

If you’re just looking for clarity and good sound, one 12 inch subwoofer will be more than plenty. Anything more and you run the risk of far too much bass that can potentially overpower your overall goal of clarity.

Unless you’re listening to rap/hip hop, you don’t want/need more than one. The best sounding system I put in a boat was in a Malibu wake boat and we installed a single 12”JL W6 with a 600 watt Amp and multiple speakers ranging from 6.5” to 6x9’s from bow to stern and on the tower. It provided a perfect balance of high’s, mid’s, and bass to where everything from a symbol to bass guitar was crystal clear.

I only say this because I’d hate to see someone spend an arm and a leg on something that might not turn out how they were expecting and end up disappointed. There’s nothing worse than not enjoying stereo when it’s needed most. Does that make sense?

I agree

[Cruiser64]

Thanks BBP I like your system and was interested in the hu you mentioned earlier, the Sony m100 I think, but got concerned when peeps said it was a crap shoot if the hu paired with the stock cps remotes. I've read so much all I've done is totally confused myself in what I need. Lol

MB5. That's why I'm asking so many questions I don't want to end up with something I hate. I've only had the boat a short time and really don't even know what's in it now, speaking of current system and number of speakers or subs. I know I need to find out for sure and that will be my next step. Just know for sure I want tower speakers and will need a amp to power it. All you experts start talking about bridging and channels and it might as well be Greek or Latin to me. Never talked to crutchfield or a local radio shop in fear they would just over sale me and that's why I'm asking here.
Thanks for the response guys I really do appreciate it.

[Big Block Power]

A7 and yt had the 100 in their boats they can answer the remote questions. I don't think they had a issue though. I I think the 65 and have no issues. Non of the new heads will be perfect with the tennis but most functions will work with a Sony Hu. Or you go with a diff HU and wireless remote too. Theirs always options. Stereos are not cheap but good deals are out there. Creative even gives you a discount when you belong to this site. They have been great to us. Most of us have bought 1 piece or another from them. Don't be afraid of getting new left over from last year stuff. Good deals on those.

[xlint89]

Looking for clarity and good sound?

Going to be listening to the stereo while swimming behind the boat and just to be able to hear the tunes while under way?

Listen to country or rock

Install myself with the help of a knowledgeable wiring guy


I do not plan on adding more batteries.

Will need to do in stages, running all stock equipment at the present time. Would love to start with tower speakers and amp on stage one if possible.
Looking for help from those that have done it and know WAY more than I do. Thanks
Cruiser

Great, this we can work off of.

What you've proposed is going to cost quite a bit. $3/4/5K just so you're aware. Doing it in stages is perfectly fine. You'll want to come up with a good plan/design first to prevent having to redo things as you move on to the next stage.

Let's start with choosing the equipment first. Once you decide that, we can come up with the accessories needed to make it all work. Finally we'll address installation and draw up a lay out.

I am unfamiliar with your boat, so you're going to have to help me out with what you currently have.

How many speakers does you boat have up front, and what size are they? Do you have room to install bigger speakers in it's place? (pictures would be great)

How many speakers do you have in the cock pit area and what size are they? Once again, is there any room to install larger speakers?

The reason I ask about installing larger speakers is if you have the room, you can get more "full sound" from a larger speaker. What this means is a 6.5" speaker can sound really good, but will only be able to reproduce sound frequencies say down to 80 hertz before the speakers starts to distort trying to play lower. (this is due to the size of the cone) Now a 7.7" speaker may be able to play down to 70 hertz before it starts to do the same (can play lower because the cone is larger than the 6.5) And if you have the room and can fit a 8.8" speaker into a location, you might be able to play down to 60 hertz because of the size.

Low frequencies like 30, 40, 50 and maybe 60 hertz would be in the bass range. Something a subwoofer would produce sound wise.

Mid range frequencies like 160 up to 320 would be mid bass. And your average 6.5/7.7/8.8 speaker will play these ranges perfectly.

Then you have the higher range frequencies like 2k hertz all the way up to 20k hertz that are handled by tweeters. Every one of the 6.5/7.7/8.8 speakers are coaxial. Meaning they have a woofer and tweeter installed into them.

If you're still following me with this, that is why larger speakers will give you more "full sound" because that one individual speaker can play more frequencies than the smaller. Meaning your 6.5" you will hear the singer's voice and the guitars just fine. But with the 8.8" you're not only going to hear the singer's voice and guitars just fine, but you will also start to hear (and feel) the thump of the drums because that larger speaker can reproduce those lower frequencies as well. (hope that makes sense)

Does your boat currently have any amplifiers in the system already?


I do not know anything about your present head unit or what would be compatible with any remote controls you might have. But why are you looking to replace it as opposed to just keeping it?

The JL MM100be is a nice head unti, but costs around $600, and the remotes for it are an additional $120 for the wired, plus an additional $30 for the wire to connect it, and almost $200 additional if you want to get the wireless remote. So that's really expensive for a radio.

I had good results with my Fusion stereo on the last boat at around $250-300. And they came out with wireless remotes for $50 a piece that you can put anywhere you want.


For clarity I heard JL Audio is pretty good. Wet sounds is good, but some things I've read is they are a little "bright" in sound. Meaning a bit loud, not as "musical". Sound is subjective to everyone, and maybe being "bright" might help when under way and having to compete with wind/engine noise. Best thing to do is try to listen to each set if you can. I've also read Polk Audio makes decent sounding stuff too.

JL audio amps are pretty clean sounding, not real powerful, and expensive.

Wet Sounds amps are powerful, not as clean sounding as JL, and expensive.

For clarity I like JL amps. Plus they have an ability to use an optional (additional $60) knob that you can mount anywhere to control the volume of any particular speakers you want. Meaning you can dial down the tower speakers, bow speakers, transom speakers, etc... without affecting the volume of the rest. You can also install one on the subwoofer amp for dialing up or down the amount of bass.

[xlint89]

Looking for clarity and good sound?

Going to be listening to the stereo while swimming behind the boat and just to be able to hear the tunes while under way?

Listen to country or rock

Install myself with the help of a knowledgeable wiring guy


I do not plan on adding more batteries.

Will need to do in stages, running all stock equipment at the present time. Would love to start with tower speakers and amp on stage one if possible.
Looking for help from those that have done it and know WAY more than I do. Thanks
Cruiser

If you just want to be able to listen to tunes while swimming behind the boat, you don't need a lot of power for that. You have 2 options I believe.

1. You can go with speakers on the tower. You don't need a ton of power for hanging around the boat.

2. You can install a set of speakers into the transom. They will be closer to your ears while in the water and will not need a lot of power as well. BIG issue is, do you want to cut holes into your fiberglass to add them?

Tower speakers are pretty expensive because you need to buy the speaker, the enclosure they sit in, and the mounting clamps to install them. You then need to run the speaker wires in the tower tubing if they aren't pre-wired already. You will most likely need to run power wire along with the speaker wire if you plan on hooking up any LED lighting to the tower speakers too.

Tower speakers are tricky, you have so many options to choose from. Since you are only looking to be able to hear them relatively close to the boat, you can get away with less powerful speakers. But you can also mount multiple sets of speakers on the tower too. So your options range from JL Audio 6.5"/ 7.7"/ 8.8" tower speakers that require 75 watts of amplifier power up to 250 watts depending on what speakers you get). Plus you can install up to 3 sets of them if you really want to. (Just FYI, you can get LED lights built into these if you were looking for that)

Wet Sounds has even more options I think. They have Horn loaded speakers like the Rev 8,10's, and 410's. (Horn Loaded Compression Driver) that are designed to really carry sound for long distances like wake boarding. (they require a lot of power from the amplifier) From 400 watts to 600 watts per speaker. Then they have Icon series speakers.

The Wet sounds seem to be more expensive for tower speakers, but are the best if you are looking for volume. And I don't know if WS includes the mounting clamp with their speakers or not. JL does NOT and you need to include the cost of the mounts with the speakers. Aslan and BBP have short videos of their WS tower speakers posted in this section and they sound good.

For you I would suggest JL 7.7" (require about 150W) or 8.8" (require about 250W) tower speakers for close to the boat sound quality. If you're going to be trying to rock the beach or wake boarding, Rev 8 or 10's

If you install a set of speakers into the transom, JL 7.7" (75 -100W) is all you would need. The 8.8" would be way too heavy unless you reinforce the fiberglass to handle the weight of the speakers.

Let me also inform you that bass is very difficult to produce on a boat. To expect to hear bass outside of the boat is unrealistic. Bass likes to reflect off of hard surfaces, so it gets dissipated pretty easily in open air environments.

[xlint89]

Looking for clarity and good sound?

Going to be listening to the stereo while swimming behind the boat and just to be able to hear the tunes while under way?

Listen to country or rock

Install myself with the help of a knowledgeable wiring guy


I do not plan on adding more batteries.

Will need to do in stages, running all stock equipment at the present time. Would love to start with tower speakers and amp on stage one if possible.
Looking for help from those that have done it and know WAY more than I do. Thanks
Cruiser

Since you are a country guy, you don't need a lot of bass. So 1 or 2 10's would be plenty. A single 12" would work too. The big question here is how big of a sub can you fit?

You need to locate where you want to install the sub first. Then that location will dictate the size of the subwoofer you can install for optimum performance.

Where you're looking to install the sub will dictate what type of installation it will require (sealed = small air tight box, ported = slightly larger box with a vent hole to allow air to move freely, and infinite baffle or "free air" = no box required, but still needs to be sealed front from back) and the installation type will dictate what subwoofer type needs to be purchased.

It is not recommended to install a subwoofer inside an enclosure. Like under a seat, in the head, or under the bilge hatch. Unless you have a large vent to allow the air to move freely.

It's ideal to have the sub face exposed into the cockpit.

Now, going back to what I was saying about the larger speakers in the first post. If you are able to install a pair of the JL 8.8", or even 2 pair of them inside the cockpit area, you might not even need a subwoofer. The 8.8" produce some pretty good bass themselves. Prob not enough for someone who's into rap, but for a country music fan, it can easily do a good job.

That alone would save you having to buy a subwoofer, (or 2) an amplifier to run it, plus all the additional wiring and labor to to install it.

Just be prepared to put in some serious time doing an install like this. Literally days to do it right and make it look good. Electrical on a boat is critical. Faulty wiring can lead to fire. Proper wire sizing and fuse/breaker use and ratings are extremely important.

If not planning on adding batteries, at least have 2 on board, and be sure to keep 1 separate from the other so you can always start the boat after playing the tunes for hours. A battery selector switch, or an Automatic Charging Relay work perfect for this. The ACR separates both batteries from one another and will always charge your designated starting battery first. It then will charge the house battery once the starting is up to snuff. If for some reason your starting battery is too weak to start the engine, the ACR has the ability to COMBINE both batteries to supply the voltage for starting. Once started it will isolate the 2 batteries again and start charging the primary battery first.

If not adding a battery, maybe consider getting larger batteries if the ones you have now are smaller and/or not deep cycle. Something along the lines of a group 27 or preferably 31. It will have a decent reserve power so you can play for hours without having to start the engine to charge the batteries.

Which brings us to battery chargers. Do you plan on installing an on board battery charger to top off the batteries when moored at night? Or are you planning on just using the alternator to charge them?

Alternators don't like charging near dead batteries. It puts a lot of stress on the regulator portion of the alt. They really are meant to top off the battery and handle the electrical load while the engine is running. So an on board charger over night is highly recommended.

It's late, that's a lot to process and I hope I made it easy for you to understand.

Let's see what you have to work with first, and we can try to devise a plan.

[Cruiser64]

Looking for clarity and good sound?

Going to be listening to the stereo while swimming behind the boat and just to be able to hear the tunes while under way?

Listen to country or rock

Install myself with the help of a knowledgeable wiring guy


I do not plan on adding more batteries.

Will need to do in stages, running all stock equipment at the present time. Would love to start with tower speakers and amp on stage one if possible.
Looking for help from those that have done it and know WAY more than I do. Thanks
Cruiser

Since you are a country guy, you don't need a lot of bass. So 1 or 2 10's would be plenty. A single 12" would work too. The big question here is how big of a sub can you fit?

You need to locate where you want to install the sub first. Then that location will dictate the size of the subwoofer you can install for optimum performance.

Where you're looking to install the sub will dictate what type of installation it will require (sealed = small air tight box, ported = slightly larger box with a vent hole to allow air to move freely, and infinite baffle or "free air" = no box required, but still needs to be sealed front from back) and the installation type will dictate what subwoofer type needs to be purchased.

It is not recommended to install a subwoofer inside an enclosure. Like under a seat, in the head, or under the bilge hatch. Unless you have a large vent to allow the air to move freely.

It's ideal to have the sub face exposed into the cockpit.

Now, going back to what I was saying about the larger speakers in the first post. If you are able to install a pair of the JL 8.8", or even 2 pair of them inside the cockpit area, you might not even need a subwoofer. The 8.8" produce some pretty good bass themselves. Prob not enough for someone who's into rap, but for a country music fan, it can easily do a good job.

That alone would save you having to buy a subwoofer, (or 2) an amplifier to run it, plus all the additional wiring and labor to to install it.

Just be prepared to put in some serious time doing an install like this. Literally days to do it right and make it look good. Electrical on a boat is critical. Faulty wiring can lead to fire. Proper wire sizing and fuse/breaker use and ratings are extremely important.

If not planning on adding batteries, at least have 2 on board, and be sure to keep 1 separate from the other so you can always start the boat after playing the tunes for hours. A battery selector switch, or an Automatic Charging Relay work perfect for this. The ACR separates both batteries from one another and will always charge your designated starting battery first. It then will charge the house battery once the starting is up to snuff. If for some reason your starting battery is too weak to start the engine, the ACR has the ability to COMBINE both batteries to supply the voltage for starting. Once started it will isolate the 2 batteries again and start charging the primary battery first.

If not adding a battery, maybe consider getting larger batteries if the ones you have now are smaller and/or not deep cycle. Something along the lines of a group 27 or preferably 31. It will have a decent reserve power so you can play for hours without having to start the engine to charge the batteries.

Which brings us to battery chargers. Do you plan on installing an on board battery charger to top off the batteries when moored at night? Or are you planning on just using the alternator to charge them?

Alternators don't like charging near dead batteries. It puts a lot of stress on the regulator portion of the alt. They really are meant to top off the battery and handle the electrical load while the engine is running. So an on board charger over night is highly recommended.

It's late, that's a lot to process and I hope I made it easy for you to understand.

Let's see what you have to work with first, and we can try to devise a plan.

My starting point. Tower speakers will be first step. I think. Lol

HU. Sony CDX-CA705M
Speakers. 6 Sony Xs-mp61. 2 up front 4 in cockpit
Amp. Super Sport 200w
Sub. 1 - 10"

[xlint89]

That's a start.

Do you plan on keeping the head unit?

That is one interesting looking install for the bow speaker. I cannot tell by the pic if you can go larger or not. Most likely going to need to stay with the 6.5". Not a problem.

That's a bonus you already have an amplifier and a subwoofer> Those may be a simple remove and replace. Would seriously need to consider the power wire going to the amp depending on how big of one you get. 200W is not a lot of power, so the 12v and ground wire might be a bit small.

If you a re making tower speakers stage 1, figure out what you want to spend.

Decent quality JL tower speakers are going to cost at least $450 plus another 100 for the mounting clamps.

The smallest JL amp to run the towers with 75W each is going to be about $400

You need to find out if your tower is wired for speakers, if not, you need the wire to run from the amp to the speakers. If you're going to add LED lights, you need to get that wire ran as well.

Now is when you need to come up with a REAL game plan. Are you going to install a dedicated subwoofer amplifier, or would you be interested in using a multi channel amplifier? Something that has a 4 full range speaker channels and 1 dedicated for a subwoofer? It's like having 2 amplifiers built into 1 unit.

Something like the JL M700/5 can power 4 speakers and the sub with only needing 1 amp installed.

The other option is to install the M800/8 and it can basically power all your 6.5" speakers. All 6 in the boat and a pair mounted up on the tower. If you decide to go with speakers on the lower end. 75W each speaker is not a lot of power for a tower. For inside the boat, it's fine. But since you're going to be swimming at the back of the boat, it might be a viable option.

Honestly, this might be the route you might want to go. With 1 M800/8 amplifier installed, you can possibly power all 6 of your existing Sony speakers, which will most likely be a big improvement from prob what you have now. (I'm assuming the speakers are being fed from the head unit)

Plus you can power the tower speakers with the other 2 channels available on the amp. SO that 1 amp alone will power your whole system except the subwoofer.

Now if you want something more on the tower that requires more power, you're going to need a bigger amp.

I am only suggesting JL equipment because that's all i know. I do not or have not ever used Wet Sounds equipment, so I don't feel right suggesting something I am unfamiliar with.

Long story short, what are you looking for on the tower?

[Big Block Power]

Yea someone screwed up those speakers. They Prob the factory premium system back then. Tiny amp for the sub. Yes factory wore is junk for stereos. Even if the tower is prewired you will want to fish new wire in anyways.

Myself you can go with 2 six channel amps. 1 amp for the tower and sub and 1 for all 6 speakers in the boat. That's my 2 cents.

[AsLan7]

.
We had that exact system in our 263 C64 (although with Sony Xplod speakers). Did something similar to what others are recommending above. Ripped the entire thing out and purchased a JL M800 8 channel amp powering six new JL Audio RGB speakers inside the boat and used the remaining two channels of the amp in a mono bridged configuration to power a new subwoofer.

Then purchased a Wet Sounds Sinister SDX-4 channel amp to throw 685 watts to REV 10 tower speakers again in a mono bridged configuration.

The speakers in the bow that you show pictured are installed correctly. They are just missing the baffle that covers them. Although ugly, that’s how the factory installed them.

If you want more info on the above install, click here.

It’s worth the money.
.

[Cruiser64]

A7. Yes fronts are missing the cover I took it off for pic. I don't think a bigger speaker will fit up front, if I elect to go bigger with the other 4 will that cause problems? I'll take a look at your build. I like the looks of the wet sounds and have read they are the way to go. Been going back and forth on rev 8s or 10s. Was planning on all new wire wouldn't trust wire on a 17 yr old boat to handle modern tech.

X89 I really appreciate your time and value your expertise. Taking all under advisement. Will just have to sit down and start figuring where I want to be. I'd rather have more than I want vs wishing I'd done more. I'm currently running 2 batteries with a selector switch with a on board charger and plug in when in parked in my shop. Never thought about bringing a cord when on trips though. Thanks for that I now have another thing to pack.

BBC thank you as well. I like the vids and sounds.

[jhnmdahl]

I think Dustin and Xlint are right about subs - one 12" or two 10" are plenty for a boat that size. The decision for me would come down to whether the boat had two distinct spaces such that you might want a sub in each, or was mostly a single rear compartment that would hold most or all of the people most of the time.

Homes and cars are a bit different in that they're both enclosed spaces, and have some room gain or cabin gain to accentuate bass. It's pretty difficult to get massive bass in a boat without building a complete enclosure for each bass driver (simply bolting it to a hole in the fiberglass interior isn't quite the same), but a single 12" or two 10" should give you a strong, balanced bass sound.

[AsLan7]

A7. Yes fronts are missing the cover I took it off for pic. I don't think a bigger speaker will fit up front, if I elect to go bigger with the other 4 will that cause problems? I'll take a look at your build.

.
Definitely take a look.

No the speaker size will not cause any issues. They are all 4 Ohm.
Balance issues can arise though if you mix different impedance speakers. Again 99% of marine speakers are 4 Ohm.

.

[xlint89]

.
We had that exact system in our 263 C64 (although with Sony Xplod speakers). Did something similar to what others are recommending above. Ripped the entire thing out and purchased a JL M800 8 channel amp powering six new JL Audio RGB speakers inside the boat and used the remaining two channels of the amp in a mono bridged configuration to power a new subwoofer.

Then purchased a Wet Sounds Sinister SDX-4 channel amp to throw 685 watts to REV 10 tower speakers again in a mono bridged configuration.

The speakers in the bow that you show pictured are installed correctly. They are just missing the baffle that covers them. Although ugly, that’s how the factory installed them.

If you want more info on the above install, click here.

It’s worth the money.
.

That's some very sound advice. Only 2 amplifiers to install and really good results.

[Cruiser64]

Holy Buckets there's a bunch of stuff to go through. First off gauge of wire, For both speakers and power. CCA wire vs OFC wire then Tinned or not. Running power to new amp, does it require a ground all the way back to the batt neg side or just to the grounding bar.
Have done a bunch of reading on here and watching on Youtube and you can find so many different ways to do it. Here's what I can gather so far. At least 14 gauge for speaker or 12 gauge being better and at least 4 gauge for amp power. Insert head spinning icon. LOL. Speaker run is approx 29' and amp power run is approx 24'. Runs are possibly 2' to 3' on the long side. Starting off with just tower speakers, 2 Wet Sounds Icon 8s with the possibility of adding a 2nd pair at a latter date, and the Amp is WS HTX-2. This was recommended by JT after discussing my listing habits. Again I have 6 - 6.5 speakers in the boat and 1 - 10" that at some time I'll update with a bigger amp and better speakers.