R7 380 vs 430 - any hands on?

[AsLan7]

Well really lets them use the same block, charge 11k for a different ECU, and call it an entire new engine. Don't see them changing that business plan anytime soon.

...which leads back to my original question that started this convo—-what T (or any of us) who are talking to the manufacturer will ask:

“Is it true VP’s new 6.2L, 430 HP engine is just a 380 horse 6.2L with an ECU upgrade. (I.e. Software enhancement only)”

.....& wait for it

.....”for $8,000 to $10,000 MORE MONEY!!!”

Please post your answer when you get one from a reliable source.

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[NautiGirl]

I still cant believe they are getting that much of a horsepower bump with only an ECU upgrade, but I am not an engineer.

[AsLan7]

I still cant believe they are getting that much of a horsepower bump with only an ECU upgrade, but I am not an engineer.

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It’s more like they develop 430 HP from a new small block 6.2L, and now have a horse power vacuum created in their lineup.

Solution: detune (via ECU software) the 6.2L, 430 HP to 380 & fill the niche —while charging an excessive premium for anyone who wants the 420. Mean!

[Tuscany]

Well really lets them use the same block, charge 11k for a different ECU, and call it an entire new engine. Don't see them changing that business plan anytime soon.

...which leads back to my original question that started this convo—-what T (or any of us) who are talking to the manufacturer will ask:

“Is it true VP’s new 6.2L, 430 HP engine is just a 380 horse 6.2L with an ECU upgrade. (I.e. Software enhancement only)”

.....& wait for it

.....”for $8,000 to $10,000 MORE MONEY!!!”

Please post your answer when you get one from a reliable source.

I got that info from several sources at V.P. USA.
My question revolves around the 321KW emissions sticker, which I have gotten two different answers over.

[Tuscany]

I still cant believe they are getting that much of a horsepower bump with only an ECU upgrade, but I am not an engineer.

Not really hard at all on an engine with VVT.
We have this same 6.2l engine in my wife’s Yukon Denali. It’s a beast. With 420/460 torque.
VP simply tunes the 380 for more peak power and torque at 3000-5000 RPM, and tunes the 430 for peak power at 6000RPM.

It’s already been stated the 380 will plane out quicker, which backs up how they are tuning/propping these engines.

I expect Merc to do the same. Quite the profit maker..

[NautiGirl]

Yeah I guess I need to think of it more as its a 430hp engine that they tune to 380 instead of the opposite way around. Regardless its a stupid amount of money for an ECU tune.

[Tuscany]

Yeah I guess I need to think of it more as its a 430hp engine that they tune to 380 instead of the opposite way around. Regardless its a stupid amount of money for an ECU tune.

Think of it as a blank slate 6.2L GM engine waiting to be programmed. HP to be determined on what flash they use. I’m sure they could get 460+ out of it if they wanted, which they may offer another HP kick down the road.

Usual issue with gasoline engines is that usually power can’t be added throughout the entire RPM range evenly. To add top end, it may cost mid range. To add mid range, it may cost top end power. VVT helps with it though..

[thunder550]

You guys just wait til they start going with turbo 4 or 6 cylinders like the auto industry is starting to trend.

I think all that needs to be done to detune a 430 engine to 380 is pull a little bit of timing. Maybe a slightly different fuel map. Not much else besides that unless you start swapping hardware. Well I guess with the VVT there's another calibration setup that can be changed too, not very familiar with VVT. I was into GM performance stuff awhile back and used to do some tuning/tweaking on the LS based truck engines. This was early 2000's, back before VVT.

[AsLan7]

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You guys just wait til they start going with turbo 4 or 6 cylinders like the auto industry is starting to trend.

I agree with ya', t550.

That's where I see the marine industry going... small block motors using digital shift and throttle technology coupled with quad cam/4 valves per cylinder with computers (PCM's) that can now process the VVT algorithm's required throughout the entire rpm range to correct for a flat torque response.
Torque on the low end AND at WOT.

The majority of the new Merc Racing engines are in this config and naturally aspirated.
http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/

Now add twin turbos!! ----with a flat power curve and no turbo lag (using pulse-timed exhaust)!!! Wow.....it's just a matter of time before the technology flows down to the masses.

Porsche has been doing it for years using 4 & 6 cylinders (albeit a different rpm curve) and the latest twin turbo from Merc racing (the 1750 9.0 liter (or 1550 9.0L for consumers)) shows great promise.

Unfortunately, it can't happen fast enough for us minions living in Cobalt land. It seems VP has got the current jump on Merc with the 2017 6.2.

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Here's the 1750 HP beast....man I love that shade of blue! :
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[thunder550]

The V8's are nice, I love a big displacement engine. I will say though that the twin turbo V6 in my wife's SUV and the single turbo inline 6 that's in my car are pretty stout engines. I love the feel of the acceleration as the turbo spools up.

Of course, what would be better than a 4 or 6 cylinder turbo? A turbo V8 of course!

[Ytmsn]

Could it be possible that they are taking a 430 horse motor and sleeving it down to 380 horses?
Sometimes in the motorcycle world companies like BMW and KTM will take a 650 or 800cc bike and sleeve them down to make a smaller displacement. It's the same engine

[thunder550]

If that were the case they wouldn't be able to market it as a 6.2L I think.

[Tuscany]

You guys just wait til they start going with turbo 4 or 6 cylinders like the auto industry is starting to trend.

I think all that needs to be done to detune a 430 engine to 380 is pull a little bit of timing. Maybe a slightly different fuel map. Not much else besides that unless you start swapping hardware. Well I guess with the VVT there's another calibration setup that can be changed too, not very familiar with VVT. I was into GM performance stuff awhile back and used to do some tuning/tweaking on the LS based truck engines. This was early 2000's, back before VVT.

That’s pretty much it Thunder!

Pull some ignition timing. Retard cam timing slightly, possibly play with injection pulse width and timing. There are a lot of things that can be done with software.
The question is why?
Why not offer the 430 hp upgrade for say, three thousand dollars for a couple more MPH. The 430 isn’t a complete upgrade over the 380. It’s slower to plane..