New R5 purchase - lead time?

[sailor55330]

It's a tough call and I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute. I have an R3 with the 300hp. It has no issue moving the boat nicely, especially at low to mid range. Could I maybe get 1-2mph more on the top end, well, possibly, but it's rare that I have an open lake to really run that fast. Now, let's take a look at it logically (bear with me here). The hulls on these boats are so stupidly efficient through the water it's crazy., especially with the duo prop. Sound of a big block to me doesn't matter as I hate a loud boat engine...I want to relax and for me that's quiet (captains call holds zero appeal personally). The dry weight difference between an R5 and and R3 is about 400lbs or approximately 2 passengers. Now, because I overanalyze EVERYTHING.....300hp in a 4850lb boat is .061hp/lb. 350hp in a 4850lb boat is .072hp/lb.....or too look at it another way, about 1.4hp per foot more with the 350. Pretty insignificant on paper. If I put an extra two passengers on my boat, I doubt I'd know the difference most of the time. I've ran the boat with 2, 4, and 6 people and can't honestly tell a difference by the seat of the pants. Where I do think you might know the difference is when the weather kicks up with a full load. As said many times before, you never wish for less power. I doubt that Cobalt would put an engine combo in a boat that would tarnish it's reputation. Here's a question, without the speedometer, can you honestly tell the difference between 49 and 51 or 3.1 seconds to plane vs 3.5, or whatever it would be? Do you need a 350/380.....honestly, probably not, but If I were getting an R5, I'd probably look at the larger engine.

Just giving options on how to look at it.

[greenhut]

Thanks Sailor - appreciate the feedback. I largely agree with your comments. I also just reviewed cobalt R5 spreadsheet that covers time to plane and top speed with different engines and props. Interestingly, there is no engine that planes faster than the VP 300 - at least according to Cobalt's data and how the boat was weighted. The VP 380 can match the 2.9 with one of the prop configs, and will also do 6mph faster on the top end. I don't care much about the 6mph, but am interested in how the time to plane varies across the 300/380 with different loads.

There are some other things that are attractive about the 380...

Much newer technology(Gen-V vs Gen-1) - clearly not always a benefit, but usually.
Slightly lower revving and should be a bit less noisy (would love to test side by side!)
Reportedly more fuel efficient than the 300
Resale

What it will come down to of course is value - is it worth approximately an additional $8500 ? Without testing side/side, I suspect it will be very difficult to tell...

[greenhut]

Actually I think the VP V8-300 5.3L is also Gen-V?

[BobRae99]

It's a tough call and I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute. I have an R3 with the 300hp. It has no issue moving the boat nicely, especially at low to mid range. Could I maybe get 1-2mph more on the top end, well, possibly, but it's rare that I have an open lake to really run that fast. Now, let's take a look at it logically (bear with me here). The hulls on these boats are so stupidly efficient through the water it's crazy., especially with the duo prop. Sound of a big block to me doesn't matter as I hate a loud boat engine...I want to relax and for me that's quiet (captains call holds zero appeal personally). The dry weight difference between an R5 and and R3 is about 400lbs or approximately 2 passengers. Now, because I overanalyze EVERYTHING.....300hp in a 4850lb boat is .061hp/lb. 350hp in a 4850lb boat is .072hp/lb.....or too look at it another way, about 1.4hp per foot more with the 350. Pretty insignificant on paper. If I put an extra two passengers on my boat, I doubt I'd know the difference most of the time. I've ran the boat with 2, 4, and 6 people and can't honestly tell a difference by the seat of the pants. Where I do think you might know the difference is when the weather kicks up with a full load. As said many times before, you never wish for less power. I doubt that Cobalt would put an engine combo in a boat that would tarnish it's reputation. Here's a question, without the speedometer, can you honestly tell the difference between 49 and 51 or 3.1 seconds to plane vs 3.5, or whatever it would be? Do you need a 350/380.....honestly, probably not, but If I were getting an R5, I'd probably look at the larger engine.

Just giving options on how to look at it.

I ordered an R3 with a VP350. I also looked at the prop charts to see the speed differences. I thought the 350 was the sweet spot of cost/performance for that boat. The R3 also comes standard with a 300.

I'm not a naval engineer, but reading Cobalts literature, the R5 has more freeboard as well as a deeper hull than the R3, so I think there is more at play than an additional 400 lbs of hull weight. I have also looked at the prop charts for the R5. The quickest time to plane is 2.9 seconds/47 mph with the 300, 3.1 seconds/52 mph with the 350 and 3.5 seconds/54 mph with the 380. Volvo Penta doesn't publish power and torque charts for the 380/430, but I assume those engines will have more grunt off the line under load than the 300/350 engines.

Some people posting here advocate for the largest possible engine. One of the benefits of higher top speed is a higher cruise speed. So, if you pick a 350HP engine, your cruise speed at 3,000 RPM could be 5 mph higher than with the 300HP engine. That may make a difference to those who travel longer distances.

I think a sea trial would be the OPs best guide but barring that I'd suggest a 350HP engine at the minimum. After that, if hole shot isn't a priority, the 380 does provide 7 mph more top speed than the 300, so 7 mph more speed at an efficiency cruise. That is worth something to many.

[BobRae99]

Another note regarding my above post;

Cobalt told me it's important to remember that the prop charts are based on a single run with one person and half a tank of gas. So, I assume a loaded R5 with a 300Hp engine might be more taxed with a full load, full tank of gas and strong winds and have a slower hole shot that is published on the chart and a 380 with more bottom end torque might outperform it (hole shot and top speed) despite what the prop chart shows.

[NautiGirl]

I think a sea trial would be the OPs best guide but barring that I'd suggest a 350HP engine at the minimum.

Wait...did I read that right....no It can't be.....

Another note regarding my above post;

Cobalt told me it's important to remember that the prop charts are based on a single run with one person and half a tank of gas. So, I assume a loaded R5 with a 300Hp engine might be more taxed with a full load, full tank of gas and strong winds and have a slower hole shot that is published on the chart and a 380 with more bottom end torque might outperform it (hole shot and top speed) despite what the prop chart shows.

IT IS! BobRay is recommending engine upgrades! Giant Loud Gas Guzzling V8's for everyone! My mission here is complete. CobaltChat has truly changed lives. I am so proud of you.

[greenhut]

Drove the R5/VP 300 today. Liked so much - the hull, wave handling, cornering, captains seat, glass cockpit, and more. One little thing I really liked is the EVC based cruise works all the way down to idle speed - great for tweaking speed in the 4-6 mph range. My wife missed something like an armrest on the co-captains chair, but loved the comfort of the rear seat and the grab rail on the top. We both wish there was a way to completely fold the backrest flat.

Realized you cant open the head unless you raise the co-cap seat bolster some. Misses by like an inch - not the end of the world, but pretty bad oversight IMO.

We had three adults and three teens on the boat. Time to plan on the 300 was excellent, but it is loud and much higher pitch than our big block 8.1. Out 8.1 is slower to plane, but then it pulls hard. Sort of the inverse here - hole shot was great, and then slowly works its way up to 45-48. My wife kept saying "it sounds like it needs to switch gears"

Our dealer doesn't have any 380s in an R5, but can get an R7/380 from another location. We will either drive another bowrider with the 380, or they will get an R7 with the 380 for us to try. If that works, they can get an R5/380 from a dealer out of their "network". I really don't want to switch to the Merc world to get a "proper" big block.

Has anyone driven both the 300 and 380? If so how was the noise difference? R5 or R6 props?

We've had the Bryant 232/8.1 for 15 years, so I'm sure we'll have some adjusting to do across the board, and noise/pitch may just have to be one of those things.

Thanks again for all the guidance and advice!

jeff

[tgrace98]

So I haven’t driven a 300 because I knew I was getting an r7. But I can tell you the mid range is the same if not better on my r7 than it was on my 8.1 vp 262. Only difference is my 262 weighed 900lbs less so it would get up to 55mph. Where my r7 tops out at 50. Not a big deal to me since I mainly just cruise around at 35-40mph. My 262 had captains call exhaust so it was extremely loud. My r7 doesn’t so the 380 seams quiet to me. While others have said its loud.

[Big Block Power]

I've yet to hear the new Gen engines. Tgrace98 and Tuscany can fill you in. But I hear the high revving engine is totally diff.
Don't fill bad to go to the merc. I'm on with that. I'll drive down the road to hand pick your new engine.

[akorcovelos]

Get a Merc, come to the dark side.

[Jeeper]

I have put 28 hrs on my R5 Surf in the last four days. Two adults and six teenagers all the time. I’m glad I don’t have anything smaller than the 380. A few times I wish I would have sprung for the 430.

[ajcampen]

Hagadone Marine in Idaho has R5 With vp 380
White with red boot stripe
Also a black one with yellow boot stripe that has a BBP 350

Hoffmaster’s marina in Va has one with a VP350
Blue white boot

[greenhut]

Thanks aj - I found the one at Hagadone, but no Arch and standard stereo.

Very similar to this one at Harbo which is the closest to an in stock match we have found, but not crazy about exterior colors:
https://www.theharbor.com/default.asp?p ... wInventory

Pretty set on the 380/6.2

[Big Block Power]

Thanks aj - I found the one at Hagadone, but no Arch and standard stereo.

Very similar to this one at Harbo which is the closest to an in stock match we have found, but not crazy about exterior colors:
https://www.theharbor.com/default.asp?p ... wInventory

Pretty set on the 380/6.2

Heck tgrace is prob looking at that one right know as we type. Lol

[tgrace98]

Thanks aj - I found the one at Hagadone, but no Arch and standard stereo.

Very similar to this one at Harbo which is the closest to an in stock match we have found, but not crazy about exterior colors:
https://www.theharbor.com/default.asp?p ... wInventory

Pretty set on the 380/6.2

Heck tgrace is prob looking at that one right know as we type. Lol

When we bought Smooth and debated between an R5 and R7 that R5 would have been the one I bought if we went with an R5. I've walked around on that boat. I liked it a lot but we ultimately decided on the 7