Batteries

[Driller]

So my garage stays around 40 or a bit warmer. Depending on outside temps. I was thinking of just leaving the batteries in the boat and charge them in there?

I leave mine in the boat on a lift with the bilge heater which I think is set a little above 40 degrees. Leave the charger plugged in all winter, and don't have a problem. Of course most of the time it is above freezing here in winter.

Hi Driller,

Do you still winterize in any (other) way, e.g., draining the engine, fogging, etc.? If I'm not mistaken, the lower unit will drain itself if left in the down position on the lift so, if the bilge heater kept the block and batteries on a tender warm during a freeze, this would be a great solution for being able to go out sunny winter weekends without de-winterizing...and the bilge heater would pay for itself in reduced (or eliminated) winterizing fees each year. Am I missing anything in my thinking?

Thanks in advance,
G

G, I don't risk it. I still have my local dealer come down and winterize the boat right before Christmas. It is cheap insurance IMO. Living in Austin, I'm afraid an ice storm will come in and take the power out during a heavy freeze. If it does, my bilge heater is useless. Not worth taking a chance with an expensive boat. A lot of the guys and gals in my marina just lower their boat into the water if a freeze is forecast. The water never gets below 60 deg here. However, I travel out of town a lot, and it would be my luck to have an instances while I was out. Mrs. Driller does not take direction well.

[Photo_G]

@mtwbldr, @okielaker, @driller and everyone else too - Thanks so much for sharing your experience! I end up out of town a lot too, so the risk is real. I need to just buckle down and learn how to (re)winterize myself if I plan to take advantage of days like...hey, today (83 high in Feb!).

Thanks again ,
G

[Driller]

I winterized mine last year myself when a front came down early just for insurance. I got a five gallon bucket drilled and fitted a water hose connection low on the side of the bucket. Lowered the boat and got the boat hot, raised it up, hooked the bucket up to the water hose connection on the motor. I had 6 gals and it took it down fast. I started with 3 gals in the bucket, and it was all I could do to keep up with the suction. Could see the pink in the engine exhaust. I think I used the RV -50 deg stuff if I recall correctly. Felt like it was good enough with the additional insurance of the bilge heater, but I had the dealer do it right in Jan, after they did the regular maintenance.

The muffs would work better, but that is a pain for my boat on a lift. I would need a dingy to get to it.

[Photo_G]

I appreciate the additional detail! I'm in the same boat (hah!), up on a lift with no easy access. When the marina winterizes mine, they just drain the block. Now I'm wondering whether that's enough protection for a hard freeze...

[gdane]

Hey Chatters, Look at your manuals on boats with the new Volvo 6 liter motors. Volvo says not to use deep cycle batteries. Don't know the whys??

Finally Made it to the lake and took a picture of my Volvo manual. That states why not to use deep cycle batteries.

[AsLan7]

Hey Chatters, Look at your manuals on boats with the new Volvo 6 liter motors. Volvo says not to use deep cycle batteries. Don't know the whys??

Finally Made it to the lake and took a picture of my Volvo manual. That states why not to use deep cycle batteries.
IMG_0416.jpg

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This has always puzzled me gdane. I had the same information printed in my owner’s manual with regard to the 8.1 GI 380 horse VP engine in our 262.

I’ve run two cranking batteries....then two deep cycle batteries...then one of each with no issues for 10 years. Battery switch run on 1,2, and “All” at times.

Runabout boat marine batteries are 12 volts regardless of deep cycle or cranking. What’s the ECU voltage issue VP is warning us about?

Maybe someone here can expand upon the inadequate voltage theory.

My guess is that one can run their deep cycle power down to the point that it’s still powering equipment but not enough power for a start. But is a cranking battery any different in regard to ECU operation so as to not damage the ECU?

I replace my batteries regardless on a time table so they should never have inadequate voltage.
.

[cmattj]

In the Automotive world the ECM or ECU need a voltage threshold above 10.5 volts usually to retain settings and software. When starting an engine this becomes the critical moment as the dip can drop below and set a series of default codes that can disable important criteria.

We commonly create “ service engine soon” lights here at the Dealership by having low batteries and moving them for short distances. Although there just Communication failure codes it can do a “ reduced power” engagement if the ecm is conflicting the results.

As the Marine world has taken all this technology in the last Decades to more communication data it’s obvious that this is the same result.

[AsLan7]

In the Automotive world the ECM or ECU need a voltage threshold above 10.5 volts usually to retain settings and software. When starting an engine this becomes the critical moment as the dip can drop below and set a series of default codes that can disable important criteria.

We commonly create “ service engine soon” lights here at the Dealership by having low batteries and moving them for short distances. Although there just Communication failure codes it can do a “ reduced power” engagement if the ecm is conflicting the results.

As the Marine world has taken all this technology in the last Decades to more communication data it’s obvious that this is the same result.

Those are cranking batteries you’re discussing above which VP recommends. Is deep cycle battery architecture different enough during start to increase the ECU risk even more?

[akorcovelos]

Honestly I don't see how the type of battery would impact the ECM/ECU at all. Low voltage can cause wonky issues with the computer, but you can run a cranking battery down just as much as a deep cycle, probably faster if you're running accessories with the engine off. The only issue I can see is many people don't consider cranking amps when buying deep cycle batteries, so perhaps a tired deep cycle won't hit the required voltage to run the ECU, where a tired starting battery can still deliver that initial kick the ECM needs to activate the critical systems. Pretty much all modern automobiles use an accessory interrupter when you crank the starter to reduce draw on the battery while cranking, I wonder if the marine industry is doing this as well?

[cmattj]

In the Automotive world the ECM or ECU need a voltage threshold above 10.5 volts usually to retain settings and software. When starting an engine this becomes the critical moment as the dip can drop below and set a series of default codes that can disable important criteria.

We commonly create “ service engine soon” lights here at the Dealership by having low batteries and moving them for short distances. Although there just Communication failure codes it can do a “ reduced power” engagement if the ecm is conflicting the results.

As the Marine world has taken all this technology in the last Decades to more communication data it’s obvious that this is the same result.

Those are cranking batteries you’re discussing above which VP recommends. Is deep cycle battery architecture different enough during start to increase the ECU risk even more?

Yes they are built different inside. The continuous use that we typicality use a deep cycle for makes heat, so the architecture inside has to be able to withstand these long load periods. Plus they need to have a depletion and recharge ability that is unique also. (reserve is an important rating, more than cranking amps with a deep cycle).
Cranking batterys as we know can rapidly send out amperage and maintain voltage during the brief period its being commanded to do so. Long drains can create heat inside the battery, and the alternator trying to max charge them back creates heat as well ( long periods of overcharging them creates seeping.. fuming etc).
.

Im sure the Volvo engineers have an old school "Vat 40", and can see the Voltage may not be sustaining properly during the cranking cycle is where these recommendations come from. As "Technical service bulletins" (TSB) arise due to customers having Data issues, and items of loss of communication are found, that where these decisions on the proper battery to use come from. A fresh Deep cycle may work this year.. But things get tired over time.. Like me.

[AsLan7]

Roger that Matt. Thanks
Currently running one Trojan deep cycle and one Interstate cranking battery in our Merc setup.

[Driller]

I run 2 interstate cranking. Never had a problem with running out of juice when on the hook. Tried to get my dealer to replace them with AGMs over the winter last year. They didn't recommend them, said they have had a lot of trouble with them not recharging when pulled down to far.

[Photo_G]

What about combo batteries, like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00075OSCO? It says that they are a "Starting and Deep Cycle Marine Battery". I ran these for ~3 yrs in my Chapparal without a problem, but it was a VP 4.3GL so I'm not sure that it even had an ECM. I'm considering them for my Cobalt, but I don't want to mess up the settings...

G

[cmattj]

I run 2 interstate cranking. Never had a problem with running out of juice when on the hook. Tried to get my dealer to replace them with AGMs over the winter last year. They didn't recommend them, said they have had a lot of trouble with them not recharging when pulled down to far.

They are correct.
Most Glass Mat batteries I’ve ran in my race cars ( odyssey) had trouble peak charging until I started using specific chargers to keep them load charging once the voltage was seen by the charger.
Automotive / marine alternators tend to not be able peak them as they will drop charge amperage too early in the process .

80 percent is all I would get even though it showed fully charged. Once I switched to a Odyssey Charger it would load 30 amps right to the end and go into maintenance mode.

What about combo batteries, like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00075OSCO? It says that they are a "Starting and Deep Cycle Marine Battery". I ran these for ~3 yrs in my Chapparal without a problem, but it was a VP 4.3GL so I'm not sure that it even had an ECM. I'm considering them for my Cobalt, but I don't want to mess up the settings...

As we discussed it will work as long as its healthy and able to recharge to peak. And not drop during cranking.
But as Durable internally as these batteries are, they don’t get rav reviews in the automotive world for longevity. But they don’t have leak issues so I’ll give them that. Ive never tried them in my boating arena .

[Photo_G]

Thanks! I may have to reconsider my options, now that I better understand.

G